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Dive into a compelling discussion with Kira Appel, the Director of International Gender Equality in the Ministry for Gender Equality, Copenhagen. With a Master of Political Science from the University of Copenhagen, Kira brings a wealth of experience and leadership in combating violence against women and human trafficking. As Chair of numerous prestigious committees and councils, including the Danish presidencies of the EU and the Council of Europe, Kira has played a pivotal role in shaping gender equality policies. In this interview, she shares her insights on international gender equality efforts, the challenges and successes of her career, and her vision for the future of global gender equality initiatives.
1.What inspired you to pursue a leadership role?
Kira Appel: Honestly, I was hesitant pursuing a leadership role. It was not because of fear, but because of the types of tasks that follows being in leadership – like budgets, personnel policies, staff appraisals and so on. In my heart I burned for justice and politics, I wanted to change the world and I was more of an expert than a leader. But then I realized, that there is also merit in leading others and involving them in the battle. Being a strategic generalist is a powerful way of gaining influence, so, I have been on a journey my whole working life.
2.What inspired you to become an advocate for gender equality in your field?
Kira Appel: Since childhood I have been occupied with justice and equality for all. I believe this stems from the women in my family. As far back as in the mid 1800 my ancestor was fighting for the right to be published in an academic magazine. My grandmother became one of the first social workers helping single pregnant women after WW2. And my mother has always taught me to stand up for my own rights. She was a teacher and she frequently illustrated how expectations towards girls and boys in school determine their possibilities. In my youth I read all the classics about women’s rights and liberation – but still found time to sneak in a couple of Barbara Cartland romantic novels too. At university, I continued my focus on how to make a better world, and on gender equality – primarily women’s rights. I had to apply for a job in the National Gender Equality Council at the Prime Minister’s Office 3 times before I was finally accepted! It has always been my dream job – so I have never left it. Gender equality and equal opportunities is about everything in society, so there has always been new tasks and priorities to dive into. No job could be more rewarding. Never a dull moment.
3.Can you share an experience where you faced gender bias and how you dealt with it?
Kira Appel: I have never been discriminated. I have been lucky to grow up in Denmark in a progressive environment with full support. At university there was a 50/50 share of women and men. However, I have experienced a fair share of sexism. Growing up in the 70’ties we were used to it. We took no notice of it – no one wanted to be a killjoy. It was not until the #Metoo movement that I actually started realizing what I had put up with, including the endless comments on looks, on being blonde, on what to wear. I never thought of stopping it. Except for when I was 17 and my driving teacher told me to pull my grades out of his nose (rubbing his nose and counting how many grades he would give me – most often around 25). I hired another teacher, but my best friend continued with him because he was the cheapest! Today, I have a much higher awareness and I have the confidence to be a killjoy.
4.As a leader, what steps have you taken to promote gender equality within your organization?
Kira Appel: I work in the Ministry for Gender Equality so I am very aware of equality in general and in the details of everyday work. E.g. it is difficult to attract male employees because quite often gender equality is regarded as a women’s issue. So I am very aware of the criteria of recruitment in order to ensure equal opportunities for all.
5.What specific policies or initiatives has your organization implemented to support gender equality?
Kira Appel: As any other local, regional and national public authority in Denmark the ministry is obliged to report on gender balance and other activities to ensure gender equality in our organization. But the ministry is also responsible for coordinating the Governments overall national gender equality activities and initiatives including action plans, strategies, policies, reforms, laws and so on. Being responsible for Denmark’s international gender equality activities like negotiations, conventions, projects within the UN, EU, CoE, Nordic Council of Ministers and all other fora I am promoting equality and trying to lift the ambition of not only Danish initiatives but also global actions.
6.How do you measure the success of gender equality initiatives in your workplace?
Kira Appel: In general it is crucial to use statistics to monitor the level of gender equality. Data can “convince” others to be aware of inequalities and it can “rip off the veil of ignorance” - including in leadership and HR. I use statistics on gender balance and targeted personnel policy in order to ensure equality in recruitment, retainment and advancement possibilities. In Denmark, people do not generally want to discriminate. Inequalities mainly stem from unconscious bias and norms. These determine our choice of education, jobs and family life. To this end, I work on two levels – the individual level by raising awareness of bias and norms and the structural level on eliminating discrimination through legislation and promoting equal opportunities at a formal level.
7.What are some of the biggest challenges you have encountered while advocating for gender equality, and how have you overcome them?
Kira Appel: I have worked professionally to promote equality for 27 years. A consistent uphill battle. Sometimes I find articles or files from 20 years ago and they are equally relevant today. Change come slowly and sometimes in waves – sometimes we even go backwards. We have to be patient and determined. An example; I wrote the first Government action plan in 2002 on violence against women, and only recently there has been a real change of mindset in society. Violence is no longer regarded as a domestic dispute but as a crime. Also, I believe that we cannot achieve gender equality unless we include men – as partners for women’s empowerment but also as beneficiaries of gender equality in the light of their own inequalities. I have advocated for this for 27 years receiving a lot of resistance, and finally I can see an increasing awareness. Understanding that men and boys are also restrained by gender stereotypes is finally being acknowledged. Changing and broadening the concept of gender equality has been a very long and difficult journey. But Denmark launched the first ever action plan on men and boys’ equality in May. So my motto is; Never lose faith. Never lose hope. Mark your successes even though they might take several decades to achieve.
8.How important is mentorship in advancing gender equality, and what role do you play in mentoring women in your industry?
Kira Appel: Research show that women going for an interview perform better if they look at posters of female role models just before they go in. Research also show, that women have a tendency to under-evaluate their own performance. Mentorship and role models are hence very important if we want more women in areas where they are normally underrepresented.
9.How do you believe achieving gender equality impacts overall business performance and workplace culture?
Kira Appel: Research show that diversity can enhance the economic performance of companies. Diversity can also improve work place cultures. It might be a cliché, but gender equality is not only the right thing to do but also the smart thing to do. When promoting women in STEM together with the IT University, we realized that broadening the recruitment also meant that more diverse types of men applied for IT studies. So working for gender equality is a win-win for everyone.
10.What is your vision for the future of gender equality in your industry, and what steps do you think are necessary to achieve it?
Kira Appel: My ultimate vision is a society where everyone is valued on their competences and where everyone can live the life they want. There is absolutely no quick fix to achieve this. Legislation is off course an important tool, but attitudes and norms are hard to kill. They are an integral part of all of us – women and men. One of the most important issues for me is to modernize gender equality. We have been digging trenches and doing the shame-blaming game trying to place the guilt – most often on men. In my opinion we are all in it together. We are all reproducing stereotypes and we are all placed in boxes. We need to break down these boxes to the benefit of both women and men, girls and boys and all other persons.
11.What advice would you give to young women who aspire to reach leadership positions in their careers?
Kira Appel: We need to talk about the elephant in the room. Statistics show that women continue to be the main caregivers in the family. And yes, it is difficult to pursue a career and be “the best mum in the world”. I shared all domestic chores with my husband. The first time I left on a business travel for 2 weeks I was crying every day. My son was only one year old, and I felt tormented and like a bad mother. But fathers are just as capable caretakers as mothers. So women need to release themselves from this ideal of motherhood. We have to realize that we cannot do it all. Life is a cycle, and when the children are small we have to prioritize – I worked and I spent time with my kids. Social activities took place with my kids, I didn’t have time to keep fit, I did a minimum of housework. Today I have two grown up sons and I can focus more on my personal extra-curriculum activities. The lesson being, that we cannot do it all. Drop the Instagram photos of your perfect life, let the kids make a mess – and clean up tomorrow… or next year. By prioritizing you will be able to pursue a career and have a family life. Don’t let the elephant rule your life!
Shared By Kira Appel, Director of International Gender Equality, Denmark
Published By She Business Time
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